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#1109547 Feb 06, 2009 at 12:15 PM
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3410 Posts
I'm still leveling Sylver.
Dreaming permits each and everyone of us to be quietly and safely insane every night of our lives.
- Charles William Dement.
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#1109565 Feb 06, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Assistant GM
1183 Posts
#1109547 Vanora wrote:

I'm still leveling Sylver.



Overreact much?

:P

/love
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#1109589 Feb 06, 2009 at 12:30 PM · Edited 8 years ago
Vile Emeritus
236 Posts
#1107301 Barkle wrote:

* Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don’t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.




oh noes!!!11! theres goes our inifinite mana! I figured they would do something with this ability; its too hella good. Even with the 50% healing cut it'll still be OP IMO.
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#1109896 Feb 06, 2009 at 02:22 PM
Assistant GM
1183 Posts
There will also be a new boss in the Vault of A who will drop the new season PvP stuff, as well as T8.
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#1109976 Feb 06, 2009 at 02:54 PM
Friend
68 Posts
#1109458 Barkle wrote:

#1109346 Vanora wrote:


I'm leveling Sylver.



Well, frost mages are getting replenishment, so that would solve one problem :)
So are Destruction warlocks.

I see where they are going with this. I can heal on Loatheb all day. I can heal on Heigan all day. I solo healed Omen for 10-15 minutes. If all I have to do is roll HoTs on a tank, I am out of FSR all the time and can heal pretty much all day. Even with throwing a Wild Growth on the raid, I can heal all day.

As far as "making it just a bit easier on healers", I think this does. Instead of having to worry about the 5SR, I just worry about stacking MP5 and Spirit for "while casting" regen. It should turn out to be a passive thing rather than something you have to actively do during a fight.




Hmmm I guess that makes Frost mages mana batteries, the shatter combo should help Frost dps go up a bit but they still gotta do a lot to frost to make up the 25-30% dps lead that arcane and fire have.

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#1111084 Feb 07, 2009 at 06:39 AM
Assistant GM
186 Posts
Isn't all of this going to slow down how fast we can move through encounters that we already have on farm? Now that our regen isn't as good, healers will be forced to drink more often...thus slowing how fast we can move through a wing of Naxx.

How many healers QQ about thier class being left out of raids? Good luck finding enough healers online to raid on any given night as it is. (Not CV, but most guilds as a whole end up spamming trade to find healers to fill out raids). And the idea of 10 player groups bringing people who offer replenishment, again--good luck. Most classes do not offer replenishment to other players. How many classes can use "mage armor"? This replenishment is only found in our core tallents that affect our own personal regen abilities. Innervate once every 6 minutes for use on ONE person isn't exactly what I would call earth shattering replenishment...esp when Innervate is spirit based. Nerfing spirit ends up nerfing innervate. Now the only people with true replenishment is a shaman with mana tide (which needs some serious boosts made to that totem) and pallys with the blessing of wisdom. Priests are all getting spirit buffs...yay...oh, that's right...spirit is being nerfed. I guess priests will just have to sing us the Draenei mana song in raids from now on.
Only the shallow know themselves--Oscar Wilde
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#1111898 Feb 07, 2009 at 05:59 PM
Vile Reporter
709 Posts
Wow, you leave for 4 days and all hell breaks loose in Blizzard Headquarters :B.


It'd be nice to get back an entire bag slot of up to 22 bag spaces and not have to constantly farm ore for bullets or arrows on my hunter. They should buff engineering though maybe in some way to compensate for the loss of bullets/arrows.

I think for soul shards they should allow them to stack to 200 or 100 like mage arcane powder, that way you keep soul shards but don't have them take up an entire bag slot or multiple spaces if you don't need more than up to which however many they stack (i.e. like 100). The soul shard mechanic or some sort of buyable reagent to replace it though should stay (to balance it out).

I think it'll take a couple of revisions for them to smooth out Priests like how long it took them in BC. Just be patient, they'll get it done right, eventually.

It's nice that they're making Divine spirit a base ability (trainable that is), but it is kind of a minor change. I think they finally realized that either it's not that big of a buff in the first place or that it was sort of a waste of talent space to make it a talent when they could have used that talent space to do something more interesting in discipline.

Making Prayer of healing castable outside of the party is a good change.


Allowing thorns to be cast in tree form is good also (I always found that annoying).

I would say that the explosive shot nerf is fine as long as they make a really REAALLY good 41 point talent for 3.1. Ideally, it'd be another shot that doesn't share the cooldown of explosive or multi shot. Or boost replenishment so that by taking away raid dps they add utility to survival, raidwise.

I'm not surprised that BM got another boost, it's pretty much the cookie cutter hunter raid spec. (appealing to the masses I guess) and a majority of BM's damage comes from their pet's damage so adding extra pet damage talents ought to make BM's damage jump to the top again (equal gear being brought into account). Unless pets are going to off tank (which in a raid environment is probably unlikely), BM probably only gives ferocious inspiration and dps to the raid so boosting pet dps is probably the only thing they thought they could do to make BM hunters more useful in a raid. Perhaps make FI more powerful or raidwide (I think it's party only at the moment), otherwise once other dps classes jump above them BM hunters are going to start complaining again.

I think the change to hunter ammo might also affect all specs of hunters since they're probably going to change how ammo affects damage (as they were contemplating changing when people complained that BM hunters were on top of the damage meters and they nerfed steady shot and volley as a result). Lowering the amount of damage that ammo adds to each shot will lower overall hunter dps, nerfing hunters across the board (from lowered autoshot and steady shot damage).
.*. (\,,,,/) .*.
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#1111904 Feb 07, 2009 at 06:01 PM
Associate
122 Posts
You are so wise Slurm, no wonder you are highly addictive. :B
Since love and fear can hardly coexist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.

Necessities can be many, but the one that is stronger is that which constrains you to win or to die.

- Niccolò Machiavelli
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#1112117 Feb 07, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Guild Master
1465 Posts
#1111904 Kaomihin wrote:

You are so wise Slurm, no wonder you are highly addictive. :B

did you watch that episode last night too?
"If modernization is the heart of the Krusty Krab, then the employees are the liver and gallbladder."
----
Friendship is like peeing your pants,
Everyone can see it,
But only YOU
Can feel the
True warmth.
-----
My blood type is also my motto: B positive

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#1112833 Feb 08, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Associate
122 Posts
No ever since it's move from Cartoon Network I never see it, it's 9pm cst air time clashes with my wife's shows and since she watches one and records another one to two I'm shit outta luck.

><
Since love and fear can hardly coexist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.

Necessities can be many, but the one that is stronger is that which constrains you to win or to die.

- Niccolò Machiavelli
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#1113192 Feb 08, 2009 at 05:24 PM
Guild Master
1465 Posts
#1112833 Kaomihin wrote:

No ever since it's move from Cartoon Network I never see it, it's 9pm cst air time clashes with my wife's shows and since she watches one and records another one to two I'm shit outta luck.

><

yeah, the OC is srs bznz
"If modernization is the heart of the Krusty Krab, then the employees are the liver and gallbladder."
----
Friendship is like peeing your pants,
Everyone can see it,
But only YOU
Can feel the
True warmth.
-----
My blood type is also my motto: B positive

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#1123532 Feb 12, 2009 at 02:47 PM
Member
30 Posts
OMG GAME BREAKING!!
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#1136276 Feb 18, 2009 at 01:31 PM · Edited 8 years ago
Assistant GM
1183 Posts
A very interesting post shining some light on the regen changes
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990765234&sid=1&pageNo=14#263


The reason these changes have to happen are quite obvious. If they're going to move to less-spammy fights, druids and priests with spirit will dominate paladins and shaman without. As soon as you move to a situation where you actually CAN pause for more than a couple of seconds priest and druids regen spikes, where paladins and shamans stay static.

This doesn't necessarily make druids and priests overpowered, but it makes it unbalanced. If they balance it around paladin/shaman regen, either druids/priests have to keep casting constantly, or else they get to make use of the 5sr. How frequently they get to make use of the 5sr regen is dependant on:

How frequently the target avoids hits/resists damage.
How frequently they get clearcasting procs.
Who else is healing, and whether they land a heal.
Whether they have cooldowns up like inner focus.

When you factor those unpredictable effects in, you can't make a strong model of priest/druid regen over the course of a fight, so you can't design a fight that will make a class go OOM if they play poorly, or if they undergear the content or whatever. You can only make a fight that challenges healers to not screw up.

Paladins and Shaman have pretty much static mana regen. They have some cooldowns to get mana back, but nothing as variable as the 5 second rule.

If you base your fights around paladins and shamans going OOM, you need to base your fight around priests and druids going OOM at about the same rate. And then when you take into account a streak of tank avoidance, letting you cancel heals, clearcasting and inner fire letting the priest hold off on spending any mana for 15 seconds, that lucky streak translates into a boatload of mana regen that the paladins and shamans have no way of lucking into. In this respect, it makes fights on average too easy for those classes with higher in combat mana regen.

If you balance it around the average mana consumption, then when you have a bad streak where you can't cancel more than every other cast, and you don't get clearcasting at opportune times, you're going to run short on mana early.

The problem is simply, the 5sr adds too much variance into your regen that non-spirit classes don't deal with. Blizzard wants to make fights that challenge your mana pool, but they have to be able to model what your mana pool should look like over the course of the encounter. When luck based factors can greatly affect that, there's no way to model it.



Some interesting numbers (Yes, numbers!) from GC about the replenishment changes.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14990765234&sid=1&
pageNo=15#292


The goal is to have mana last about the same for all healers. We don't think many players would be that interested in a style where you heal crazy good for a short period and then run OOM. How classes manage their mana varies a lot, and we are making tweaks to it for 3.1 to try and keep them in line. For example, the shadow fiend needs to be more reliable.

I am still not following the logic that Int now trumps Spirit by even more. It may have been a better stat already, but these changes shouldn't affect it that much unless you A) skip Meditation and Intensity, or B) relied a whole lot more on OOFSR regen than the average raid healer of reasonable skill.

I will break from our normal practice and go ahead and provide the numbers, just to make sure nobody is guessing about the details when doing their estimates:

-- The amount of base mana regen granted has been reduced 40%. We called this "Spirit" in the notes, since most players associate OOFSR regen with Spirit, but in reality Int factors into the equation as well and we only lowered the constant, not the relative contributions of Int or Spirit. In retrospect, this probably caused more confusion than it alleviated, but mana regeneration is a fairly technical concept.

-- The effects of talents that provide mana regen while casting have been increased by 67%. This includes: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac, and Spirit Tap. For example, Intensity and Meditation are now 17/33/50% mana regen while casting (up from 10/20/30%). For most dps classes who never got much mana from OOFSR in the first place, the results should not be noticeable. Boomkin may be a possible exception because of Innervate, and we'll take a look at that.

-- This should leave mana regeneration while casting (even the contribution of Spirit) relatively unchanged, but reduce mana regeneration while not casting by 40%. (If you don't understand our logic, I suggest you re-read the excellent post I quoted above.)

-- Since paladins don't rely on any of those abilities for mana regeneration, we lowered the healing penalty of Divine Plea to -50%. We are also likely to make Spiritual Attunement provide less mana for non-tanking paladins. We are not touching Illumination for the moment. Nor are we lowering the effects of Replenishment (though as I have suggested, it would be our likely next target if we aren't happy with the results of these changes).
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#1152678 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:44 PM
Friend
48 Posts
The thing that really struck me on this is that they're nerfing spirit at the same time that the first set the tailors are making in WotLK is all spirit all the freaking time.

Granted, the first set of tailoring patterns was pretty much all about providing dust for enchantment, but now it's really all about providing dust for enchantment.
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